Way back when I started studying Spanish, I always learned that «in the morning/afternoon» was «por la manana/tarde». More and more lately (well, actually sometime shortly thereafter) I hear and read only «en la manana/tarde».
Does anybody still use «por» or is it always «en» nowadays?
I still see it listed in dictionary entries online and I am assuming these are current, in terms of their usage — although maybe that is a bad assumption. It seems I’ve been making a lot of those lately.
Any comments and opinions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Hello Gerardo,
Nice to see you around! I only say por (la mañana, la tarde, la noche). En is used in many other countries.
And the Basques say a (la mañana, etc). According to the DPD, also the Catalans and Argentinians use a in phrases like these.
Un saludo.
Ahh, many thanks, Blasita!
So, it seems as if this may be one more of those Latin America vs. Peninsular differences again. I love seeing how the language is used differently in different parts of the world!
What strikes me as funny is a situation like this: Let’s just assume that someone like me, a non-native Spanish speaker, had a perfect accent (but from what area??) — that is, didn’t sound like an American — and was reasonably fluent. With all of the little vocabulary differences, grammar usage differences, speech pattern differences, etc., I just start to mix all of these up when I am speaking because I just can’t remember, at that particular moment, what is used/said where. What does a native Spanish speaker think? Would you know that I am someone who learned Spanish as a second language? Or do you just shake your head, tell me, «Wow. You really speak a fluent but strange Spanish,» and ask where I am from? I mean, it must sound funny to your ear…
Un saludo a todos.
You’re welcome, Gerardo!
I must say I’m neither a typical non-native speaker of English nor a typical person. Having said that, here is my opinion.
I believe everyone has an accent (británico, americano, australiano, argentino, colombiano, venezolano, cubano, madrileño, catalán, sevillano, vasco …), i.e. it’s a fact that everyone’s speech has a particular set of phonological features.
So what’s a perfect accent? To me, Gerardo, there’s no such thing as a «perfect accent». While teaching in Moscow, I remember having been asked to record some texts for an exam because they wanted a «standard, neutral Spanish accent» and I’m from Madrid.
I used to mix up some vocabulary and grammar structures from some varieties of English, but I’ve never had trouble with it and no one seemed to care either. Actually, I don’t care about accents because the most important thing to me has been, and is, to communicate effectively in a foreign language regardless of what accent you have. I enjoy hearing different accents, in all languages!
Let’s see what others say.
Hello Blasita and Gerardo:
I am with Blasita a 100%.
What you think it is thought by every person that studies a language. For instance can you explain how a typical American (‘murican) sounds? 😉
Hello all.
Yes, I understand what you mean about the spoken accent.
I guess I was really more interested in the idea of how it sounded when all the vocabulary and idioms from all other regions get used by someone like me who doesn’t belong to any one region and would use the one I knew no matter where I was. And naturally, it would never be the one used in the region I was at that time!
It just strikes me as funny!
Hola, Gerardo, Chileno y todos:
Respondo ahora en español, Gerardo, sobre todo porque sé que no te importa lo más mínimo y para ver si algún compañero que no domine tanto el inglés se anima también a escribir un comentario sobre el tema.
Gerardo, pongamos que tú y tu familia venís para Madrid (¡ojalá sea algún día, por cierto!). Tú tienes un «acento perfecto en español», de eso estoy segura, pero ¿cuál? Entiendo que quieres preguntar qué pasaría si tu español suena como si fuera tu lengua madre, pero con alguna mezcla de términos, frases hechas o gramática de distintas variedades del español.
Verás, yo creo que excepto las personas bilingües —me refiero en concreto a los que han crecido naturalmente usando los dos idiomas—, todos tenemos un acento o, podemos tener en algún momento, una mezcla de palabras, expresiones o construcciones gramaticales en nuestro segundo, tercer, etc. idioma. Si no se capta al principio, en una conversación algo más larga es muy posible que salga algo de esto a relucir. Ah, y recuerdo ahora mismo varios excolegas hispanohablantes que habían vivido en diferentes países hispanohablantes y que tenían una evidente mezcla de distintas variedades de español, o sea que no ocurre solamente con no hispanohablantes.
Dicho todo esto, entiendo tu inquietud al no ser hispanohablante, ya que es más probable que la gente te «juzgue» por estas cosas. Yo no he tenido graves problemas en este sentido o simplemente es que he pasado de ello. Sé que es lo que le toque a uno y que influye el tiempo y el lugar, pero yo no me preocuparía de ello demasiado y, además, aquí están tus amigos del café para apoyarte y responder a tus dudas e inquietudes. 🙂
Un abrazo.
Thanks again, Blasita.
It’s funny, it never even crossed my mind that a native speaker living abroad would encounter the same thing. I was so focused on how a non-native speaker would be viewed.
The Spanish language is so wide spread and varied and as language learners we see examples from every area and to try to keep what is said where, well, it’s just impossible!
Many thanks.
Aprovecho la invitación de Blasita y me doy por aludido con eso de que «a ver si alguien que no domine tanto el inglés se anima a comentar». Me animo.
Respecto a lo del uso de «en la mañana» o «por la mañana», mi experiencia es que en mi entorno cercano se usa siempre «por la mañana» y, por contra, en el ámbito de mis conocidos hispanohablantes se impone mayoritariamente el «en la mañana». De cualquier forma, el uso de las preposiciones en español es un tema que ha dado, da y dará argumentos para escribir y debatir largo y tendido.
Respecto a lo del «acento perfecto» coincido con lo que dice Blasita; no existe. Un acento perfecto sería el acento que pasa desapercibido en una conversación pero para que eso ocurra todos los interlocutores deberían ser de la misma zona geográfica e, incluso, del mismo nivel cultural y social. Si nos referimos al «acento neutro», según mi conocimiento al respecto, se dice que el español hablado en Valladolid se puede considerar un castellano neutro y, del otro lado del charco, se dice que el español de Colombia bien pudiera considerarse un español hispanoamericano neutro.
Un saludo.
Hi Gerardo,
I’m going to reply to your second enquiry. I do sympathise with you. Does one sound peculiar using vocabulary or expressions from one geographic area whilst having an (imperfect) accent from another area? And, as learners, we aspire to improve that accent.
I obviously can’t hear my own accent in Spanish but I hope it is better than that of other Brits I know who sometimes make me cringe! In my case, the input from the locals is contradictory. Some say that I speak like a native, others laugh and say that I speak the same as 30 years ago. «Desconocidos» aren’t much more helpful either. I’ve sustained hour-long conversations with people who haven’t detected that I was foreign and yet others have said «Tú no eres de aquí» when I’ve only told them that it was «las dos» in answer to their enquiry about the time.
Having said all that, I think that the advice from Blasita and other friends is very sound. Perhaps we shouldn’t worry too much about that. If I met a person who was brought up in a Spanish colony in Africa, who spoke with a South American accent and who used all the expressions and «giros» typical of this area in Spain, I wouldn’t consider him a ridiculous mish-mash. I would be fascinated by him and probably envy and admire him.
We all want to learn and improve, but we have to accept who we are too.
(By the way, I don’t think it’s of any use, but I always use «por la mañana/tarde etc»).
Many thanks to all! Your comments are all right on the money, of course.
I always enjoy the comments and opinions of everyone here.